Interview with Pat Tassoni: So what makes him so special that he can walk around downtown without a license anyway?

author : Janet Blanding | Pat Tassoni topic : Interview

by Janet Blanding

Janet Blanding interviews Pat Tassoni, local activist and cofounder of Olympia CopWatch, and the plaintiff in the wrongful arrest suit, as detailed in the article above.

Janet Blanding: I understand that you were involved with the creation of Olympia CopWatch. When did you start CopWatch, and why?

Pat Tassoni: I think it was the fifth anniversary of the beating of Rodney King when we announced the formation of Copwatch in Olympia.

JB: So that would have been 1996?

PT: Yes.

JB: Who was “we”?

PT: A number of people, mostly activists associated with the Olympia Movement for Justice and Peace at that time and the Liberation Café, including Frank Hoffman, Tom Nogler, and Dave Griffiths, and some others.

My personal story is when I first moved to the “dangerous” downtown Olympia area, it was before the creation of the ODA business association, and it was during the development of the downtown walking patrol. I worked in a place that was open the latest downtown (other than a bar). I would get stopped and harassed by the police, the same officers, OPD, every couple of weeks.

JB: Were these the same cops who illegally detained you in Sylvester Park?

PT: No, those were troopers in the Washington State Patrol. But some of the same officers of the OPD were present during the demonstration up the street, and they didn’t arrest me or anybody.

JB: Because you whipped them into shape with Oly CopWatch?

PT: [Pat coughs modestly and evades the question.] The officers when I was first downtown would stop me every two weeks as if they’d never met me before, including the absurdity that I used to work for a time in the same building as them.

JB: Where was that?

PT: They had a substation in the Mottman building.

So, I started to get to know their names, although they never seemed to know mine, or where I worked, or what I was doing and where I lived. I was just a smartass from Lacey who didn’t know my rights, but through the constant harassment, I came to understand what my rights were. And so if the City of Olympia and the OPD wonders how this all happened, they only have themselves to blame.

Over the years CopWatch has interjected accountability models into the city plans for their police department. And there’s been some bureaucratic progress made in that area, but nothing that approaches true accountability. The cops are a bit more used to having their police actions observed. It used to be totally predictable that they would threaten to arrest people who were watching and I’m sure they still do, but at least they acknowledge that citizens have the right to watch them as they do their business—but they still harass people for sure.

JB: Do you think the OPD is more careful to avoid violating the rights of citizens since CopWatch started?

PT: I would say they are more careful not to openly violate citizens’ rights, which means that they know they are being watched as they do their duty. Or they suspect they’re being watched—by citizens, not by other cops or any officials.

JB: How do different law enforcement entities compare? For instance, during the protests at the Port of Olympia, some people felt that the Thurston County Sheriff’s Department and State Patrol were significantly more brutal than the OPD.

PT: CopWatch has sort of provided the OPD with on-the-street training that certainly the sheriffs don’t get. The State Patrol gets a little, but obviously not enough to understand civil liberties, as in my case.

JB: Were they targeting and harassing you personally because of your role in creating Oly CopWatch?

PT: Larry Kessel definitely knew who I was, or should have. But I think the trooper who detained me, Woods, was just a moron, and still is a moron.

It was a demonstration, so cops of all jurisdictions were there, and they were out to protect the Republican party that was present and “serve” the public who was protesting them—and by serve, I mean harass and target.

[Editor’s note: the demonstration was against a Bush–Cheney campaign event that was promoting the Patriot Act and featured former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, who would months later be nominated by Bush to be the Secretary of Homeland Security. Kerik quickly withdrew the nomination amid a series of personal scandals.]

So I think just because I was involved in protesting and such, I was targeted, but it’s not because Woods knew who I was. I was just a part of the protesting class exercising my rights, which annoys the police in general.

JB: Why did you choose to sue the State Patrol?

PT: In my experience of watching the police, and working with the City Council to try to get them to actually develop an accountable police department, the only real way to change police behavior, I believe, is a cost benefit analysis, which means suing the fuckers whenever you can.

JB: So, as a citizen, I thank you, Pat. What are you going to spend the money on?

PT: After reimbursing myself for the actual costs, there’s not a lot left over. These suits are not necessarily for monetary gain, as they are another way to change the system.

Lawsuits are a long tedious process, mine took three years, but it is a way to make them examine their policies and provide further training to avoid knowingly repeating incidences.

JB: Considering that you settled your suit, are you optimistic about the future? Will it be easier for citizens to assert their civil rights vis-à-vis the police?

PT: Things have changed over the last ten years and it’s not as difficult to find a lawyer to sue the police as it used to be. I was hoping for enough of a settlement to set-up a revolving defense fund to retain attorneys to always be suing the police, but that didn’t happen.

JB: Why is it easier to find a lawyer to sue the cops now than it was ten years ago?

PT: I don’t know actually, I just have noticed it’s changed. Ten years ago if you wanted to sue the cops, no one would take the case. Now, it’s not too hard to find a lawyer. Maybe Olympia is growing up after all.

Anybody who has a good case—and not every case is good, because the cops know how to lie or it’s not politically expedient to sue—I’m at the point where it only makes sense to sue, rather than asking the police to be nice, or relying on the city council to actually give a shit. Although [Olympia City Councilmembers] TJ [Johnson] and Laura [Ware] have stuck their necks out...but they’re leaving.

JB: How do you think the new city council will do with developing plans for a more accountability from law enforcement?

PT: I guess we’ll see next year.